Leveraging Insights to Challenge the Status Quo and Unlock Opportunity

In this episode of the Consumer Insights Podcast, we speak with Kyle Papanikolas, Global Insights Senior Director at McDonald’s.

Understanding the exact wants, needs, and desires of consumers is one of the hardest tasks in business. By mixing quantitative and qualitative data with human understanding, organizations can identify meaningful insights that present big opportunities to accelerate business growth.

In this episode of The Consumer Insights Podcast, Thor is joined by Kyle Papanikolas, Global Insights Sr Director at McDonald’s.

They cover:

• A practical guide to identifying insights
• Integrating insights to present business opportunity
• Essential tools for a modern insights leader
• The DNA of successful insights team
• The importance of storytelling in the insights function
• Opportunities available to consumer insights professionals
• How consumer insights professionals can challenge the status quo
• Approaches for promoting long-term insight generation

If you’re interested in practical approaches for leveraging insights to challenge the status quo and unlock business opportunity, tune into this episode of The Consumer Insights Podcast.

You can access all episodes of the Consumer Insights Podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, or use the RSS feed with your favorite player. Below, you'll find a lightly edited transcript of this episode.

Thor: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Consumer Insights Podcast. Today I'm excited to have a really inspiring insights leader joining me for what I know will be an interesting conversation. 

Kyle Papanikolas is the Senior Director of Global Insights at McDonald's. Before joining McDonald's a number of years ago, he was a Consumer Insights Manager at AB InBev or Anheuser-Busch for nearly three years. Thank you so much for joining me, Kyle.

Kyle: No, thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it.

Thor: Firstly Kyle, could you take a couple of minutes to tell us about yourself, your company and how you got to where you are today?

Kyle: Absolutely. For me, I've been within the research industry for about 15, maybe 20 years now. Started out first on the agency side. I think that was super helpful for me because it gave me some experience in terms of the technical aspects of how we actually do research. 

Then as you mentioned, I worked at AB InBev on the client-side, which got me a lot closer to business and understanding that, and then over the course of the past seven years or so, I've had the opportunity to work at McDonald's within our global Insights department. 

As you know, McDonald's is a big, massive company and especially when you work at a global level, it's really interesting because you can work on some really, really cool things, but also you get so much exposure to all the different pieces of the world because we're pretty much everywhere. 

Then also it's interesting because you get to work on very, very fascinating projects that not only touch food, but you also have to think about the interdependencies of how it works together with operations, how it works together with all these different functions and how everything comes together. 

It’s been a really fascinating ride. I think McDonald's is super helpful just to understand how all the different pieces come together and have a true appreciation for the size and scale of the business.

Kyle's definition of an insight

Thor: I think that's super interesting, Kyle, and I think that the fact that you started out on the agency side gives you a different perspective. What I would love to hear is with that combined perspective, the agency perspective, and also the perspective you've learned from AB InBev and now McDonald's, as an insights leader, how would you then define an insight?

Kyle: Oh, how would I define an insight? That’s a great question. I think I don't have a perfect definition of it. What I'd say though, is that many people, and even within our business confuse a fact with an insight, or they confuse an observation with an insight. 

It's the combination of a true human understanding. But it’s not just that alone. It's combining that with some business outcome that can actually unlock growth

The reality to me, and I think what I've grown to appreciate is that it's the combination of a true human understanding. But it’s not just that alone. It's combining that with some business outcome that can actually unlock growth. An observation by itself, even if it's an observation about humans at the end of the day, if we can't  activate it and actually drive business impact, it’s worthless. 

At the same time, going out and saying, "Hey, we're seeing a massive growth in delivery." That's not an insight because it's not about humans. It's not about people at their core. It’s a combination of both of those things coming together to me is a true insight.

Why insights are so important

Thor: I really like that. You're really playing back part of it is I think a common misperception for people that are not in the industry or that are maybe new to the industry is the fact that just facts are not insights and observations are not insights. 

I really like how human understanding plays a big part here and the applicability in the business plays a big part. Tying it a bit to the applicability in business, why do you think that marketing consumer insights are so important? If I may add one more question on top of that, what does the accessing and analyzing, and integrating of those insights allow the business to do?

Kyle: Your two questions are very interrelated. I think, especially right now, the reality is there's so much confusion out there. Part of that is the context of what we're in right now. 

We’re still, fingers crossed coming out of the pandemic and the world has completely changed, but now you're piling inflation on top of that. People are like, "What the heck is going on right now?" 

One of the biggest things that the insights role plays right now is cutting through all of that clutter and providing clarity of “What is the truth and how do we actually use that to unlock growth?”

The other piece of it is there's so much data and information out there that it creates confusion. Honestly, people can cherry-pick whatever data points they want to support their story.

I think for me, one of the biggest things that the insights role plays right now is cutting through all of that clutter and providing clarity of “What is the truth and how do we actually use that to unlock growth?”

An example of how insights have fueled innovation at McDonald's

Thor: Absolutely. What you're really highlighting here, playing part of it back to you is just that ability to, because of this massive influx of data, you'll end this, all the changes that happen in society, you have a situation where confusion is ripe. 

As an insights team, as an insights leader, you effectively can help the organizations to cut through that confusion, cut through the clutter, and actually have a more clear view on opportunities that the business could profit from. 

If we talk about such opportunities, could you maybe give me an example of a particular time where you at McDonald's or you supported McDonald's to integrate insights to fuel innovation?

Kyle: It's a great question. It's interesting because you think I would recall something recent, but there's actually something, when I first started my career at McDonald's, I used to support what we call our family business, which part of that is happy meals. 

The intent is to be much broader on how we resonate with families around the world. What stands out to me is there's a project where the family business was suffering. We were starting to lose customers over the course of time, our happy meal sales were going down. There was the ask of like, "Hey, how can we reframe the way that we think about them?”

Historically as I'm sure you know, families were closely connected to Happy Meals and it was all about the toy and making the kid happy. Then the kids start tugging on the parents' arms saying, "I want to go to McDonald's." That was the old model.

We unlocked this really, really interesting insight that there's this big sense of family time that happens on the weekend where it's all about connection and bonding, and people post all their magical pictures on social media and everything is perfect. But the reality is all of the stuff in between Monday and Friday is a big, hot mess.

What we did was interesting. Going back to what we were talking about before, it wasn't looking at one piece of information or one survey. The reality is we triangulated all these different data points. Yes, we went out and we did a survey with parents and with kids to understand how they think and feel about McDonald's.

Then we also did a really fascinating study where he looked into Facebook to understand what family time is actually like and getting deeper underneath that. Then we also layered on to some other syndicated information that was lying out there. 

We unlocked this really, really interesting insight that there's this big sense of family time that happens on the weekend where it's all about connection and bonding, and people post all their magical pictures on social media, and everything is perfect. But the reality is all of the stuff in between Monday and Friday is a big, hot mess.

For us, it was like, "How can we insight?" I remember the perfect articulation of it though, is “How can we inject little moments of happiness, both for parents and kids within that big mess that is the week?” 

That's been the big shift in terms of our strategy where the course of past, I'd say five years or so is not just talking to the kid, but thinking about, are there ways that we can create small moments of connection with the parent, or creating an environment to where the parent feels good about coming into McDonald's and relax and just enjoy themselves with it?

Triangulating data

Thor: That's so interesting. It’s an example I think a lot of us can relate to. Of course, many of us have families and I know exactly how it is. Actually, my daughter asked me this morning when we would go to McDonald's. True story. She asked me,  "Last time you promised me we would and we didn't." 

I definitely think I can identify that and I can also see how the week is actually. It very much is that mess. I'm a bit curious to hear, because I think it's fascinating how you talk about this triangulation, and that you had the Facebook data, you had the syndicated data, and that you were able to through various sources and some I'm sure you didn't mention. How did you identify those insights? How did it happen?

Kyle: It was messy. You think that there's this perfect connection of A connects to B, connects to C, and "Oh, voila insight." The reality is you have a lot of contradicting information or conflicting information. 

There’s a lot of iterations that came with it, but the most powerful part was taking all that information and getting together in a room with a bunch of stakeholders and really smart people and trying to connect the dots between all these different things. The way that we sorted through all of it was first to understand what themes existed across all these different sources.

You think that there's this perfect connection of A connects to B, connects to C, and "Oh, voila insight." The reality is you have a lot of contradicting information or conflicting information. 

Then it was to pressure test that of “Does it pull up your heartstrings a little bit? Is there something there?” Because you may find a space that's interesting, but if it doesn't speak to you as a human being, it's a good sense of there's not really something there where it needs to be honed in a bit. 

When we found this really interesting space, it spoke to us not only on a personal level as parents, like you said. I'm a dad also, but also it's like, "Hey, this is something for us in our brand that we can actually play a role in?" 

The reality is all weekend stuff of time out with the family, it's a very different type of vacation for us. It's like, "Hey, we can insert those little tiny, small moments of happiness, and something that we could authentically play.”

That's how we ended up leaning in more into that space. Yes, it's never like a perfect linear connection. Especially these days with all the information out there. Workshopping, spending time with other stakeholders, and sorting it through is a really, really powerful tool.

Unpacking big problems

Thor: I also really like what you said about how once you got to something that felt like “There might be more here”, that you had to pressure test it. That going back to what you said in the very beginning forces you to, “Is this just an observation or is it an insight?” It's kind of that test that tells you if it is. 

How do you unpack these hairy problems? Do you have any advice on how we think about unpacking? It's a tricky situation. I think many of us are facing this.

Kyle: Yes. I think that the first part that I always like to start out with and honestly I like going back to your old high school science days of “Let's develop some hypotheses.” 

The reality is you don't want to go too narrow and just do this one study because then you miss all the context in depth and you may miss spaces within it. Also what you don't want to do is boil the ocean and look at everything because then it can be so overwhelming. 

What I always try to do, at least in my head, sometimes I formalize it is, "Hey, let's jot it down, what do we think could be a space or something really interesting for us?" and that allows us to hone in and have a lot more focus in terms of what we're exploring. 

I ran into situations in my past, especially early on in my career where I'm like, "I'm going to look at everything." and then it just ends up a big, massive mess of nothingness because I've tried to explore everything and boil the ocean. You don't get anywhere by doing that.

The tools essential for insights teams

Thor: I'll definitely reveal the fact that has happened to me too, also earlier in my career, so I can relate. There are also tools that become essential to support insights, professional and which tools do you believe are the most essential ones and why?

Kyle: Yes, great question. Well, obviously Stravito has been a huge help for us. Not only in terms of aggregating information like we're talking about now, but it's also super useful because we are a centralized company, which means that there's a lot of work that happens within our markets. We aren't necessarily aware or other markets aren't really sharing information. 

We've been able to use Stravito to tap in and build a foundational understanding of what we already know today. That's another helpful piece for us because it gives you a starting point so you can develop some of those hypotheses or even pull some of that information in as you're building out the story or figuring out what the answer to the problem is.

Thor: Thank you so much, first of all, but are there any other tools that come to mind that you think are essential for the modern insights leader?

Kyle: Yes, it's a great question. It depends on what the situation is. One thing I will say is that there's been rapid advancements within technology within the space, which allows you to do work and do research and consolidate information in a much more streamlined speedy way than we're used to. 

It used to be that you spend four, five, six, seven weeks doing research and now the reality is the MarTech space has unlocked this new opportunity for us to do things much faster than we used to. We like to leverage those tools and, and use things like that when it's appropriate.

Tools are helpful, but the reality is that the company and our stakeholders don't care about tools. They care about the application of the tools.

I think the biggest thing that we want to be careful with is not focusing just on the tool and getting so locked into the tool itself. To me, it's more, how do you use that tool to unlock business growth and drive business outcomes and sorry, I'm going on a bit of a tangent here. 

I think historically what we realize within our organization is we were so anchored on tools and tools are helpful, but the reality is that the company and our stakeholders don't care about tools. They care about the application of the tools.

Recently we've gone for a restructure to focus more on business outcomes, leveraging these tools so that we're actually meeting our stakeholders' needs and driving business impact.

The DNA of a successful insights team

Thor: I think that's a very healthy way of looking at it. I think that's something that we all really should do. Let's talk a bit about people for a second and talent. If we talk about a successful insights team, what do you believe is the DNA of a successful insights team?

Kyle: Great question. We've actually had a lot of conversations about this recently because we've had new leadership come in both with the insights team and even above that. 

With all the changes that are going on right now, we've been asking ourselves how we can be highly effective insights. What I'll say is that I think a lot of insights professionals are really, really good at the hard data aspect of it. They understand the technicalities of how to do research and everything else. 

To me especially right now, the biggest power is more in the soft skills of relationship-building, storytelling, working together with other people in collaboration.

To me especially right now, the biggest power is more in the soft skills of relationship-building, storytelling, working together with other people in collaboration. Also to be quite honest, what happens and we found in our company is insights people tend to be more introverted. They don't like to speak out and share information. All this great data and information and knowledge just sits inside them.

A big part of it is how you can go out and proactively share what you're learning and understanding and drive more influence that way. Not just keep it locked within the department to where it doesn't drive any business impact or people don't know about it. 

That's been a big part of what we're pushing is more of those soft skills in general, but also how can we be more proactive in sharing information, creating forms to where people can casually learn from you, so that it doesn't just sit within the department and not actually go anywhere.

Using soft skills to elevate insights

Thor: That's very interesting, Kyle. I've never actually thought about that. I think there's definitely a good point there. I think a lot of the people that work with insights are good with numbers. They're analytical and able to work the numbers and actually build, make sense out of numbers. Which is not an obvious thing to do. 

Which leaves a lot of them slightly more introverted than maybe extroverted and those soft skills become essential when you want that information to actually become used in the organization.

That's a very interesting observation. Can we spend a bit more time talking about those soft skills and the skills that are needed to elevate insights within the organization? So you did talk about storytelling and you talked about soft skills more generally. How would you think about it more generally?

Kyle: I'd say people that have the ability to build relationships and influence others. Honestly, what I look for is I look for really creative people that are willing to provoke a bit, because the reality is marketers and the people that we work with, no offense to them at all, but they're on autopilot because they're so focused on what's right in front of them. 

It makes it very, very difficult to actually drive breakthrough disruptive change within the company because people are so focused on the short term. 

As insights professionals, I think it’s really important that we're curious, just naturally kind of like to look outside the bounds of our category and business. Also, we can be a bit provocative in terms of how we actually tell our story.

For us, as insights professionals, I think it’s really important that we're curious, just naturally kind of like to look outside the bounds of our category and business. Also, we can be a bit provocative in terms of how we actually tell our story.

It's not just storytelling, but also pushing marketers to stop and pause and be like, "Oh my God, I never thought about it that way." For me, that’s one of the things I really love to do. 

We have something called the “Voice of a customer” that we do every month with our executive team. We pick different topics, and we go on in-depth on topics, but I always like to provoke them a bit within it. 

It's not just saying, "Hey, this is what the customers are thinking and feeling," but "Hey, there's a really, really big thing here." or "There's a massive gap," or, "A huge opportunity for us. How do we think about this opportunity in a different way?”

That creates more of a dialogue and conversation that then creates and generates more change. I think that it's not just storytelling, but actually influence, provoking, getting people to pause, reflect, think of it. I think it is hugely important.

The challenges facing insights teams

Thor: I can see what you just described. If I play it back to you, using insights in that way is a really good way for insights professionals to challenge the status quo because going back to what you were saying about a lot of people in marketing are very much set in. 

They need to be quick and efficient and they work on a routine basis and sometimes it's important to raise your arm and say, "Hey, the world has changed." I really like that. That's a very good way to think about it. On the flip side, however, what challenges would you see that could face the insights professional and the wider industry in the near future?

Kyle: Yes. I think one of the challenges actually goes back to what we were talking about earlier, which is that the reality is there's so much data and information.

What's happened now is we are viewed as a monetized industry. You run the risk of not being able to drive influence, because what we have sometimes happening within our company is people are like, "Oh, I'll just go out and pick my own data to help tell my story." 

You have to be very, very careful about how you control the narrative within your company, a big part of what we're doing. You have to be very careful of how you actually go about doing it, cause you don't want to go out and be “judge and jury” on everything because that helps break relationships. 

You have to be very, very careful about how you control the narrative within your company, a big part of what we're doing. You have to be very careful of how you actually go about doing it, cause you don't want to go out and be “judge and jury” on everything because that helps break relationships. 

I think it's really important going back to what we were talking about, soft skills, building relationships with others, collaborating with them. Then they want to work together with you and not to go off and do the wrong thing or cherry-pick the wrong story. A big part of overcoming that honestly is just building relationships with other people within your company.

Putting together the insights puzzle

Thor: I also want to reintegrate something you said in the very beginning of our conversation, which is "It's really essential for insights leaders to see how the different pieces come together." 

If we tie that to what you just said about the inflow of data and the fact, the reality that you know as an insights leader today versus say 10 years ago have many more sources to deal with. How do you think about getting all the pieces together now that there are more pieces in the puzzle than say 10 years ago? What do you think about that?

Kyle: Oh, man. This is tough. I think that is a very good question. I think the tricky part is you don't want to be locked into looking into all the pieces and so you need to find some way to navigate all that so that you actually spend more time on understanding "Okay, what does it actually mean for us as a business and actually activating it within the business?" 

I think you always want to create a safe space for exploration and looking for what's out there, but you want to make sure that you don't get locked into that and looking at too much stuff and not really fine-tuning. "Okay, what does that actually mean for the business and how do we drive impact?"

Who Kyle would love to have lunch with in the world of insights

Thor: That makes a lot of sense. We're coming towards the end of our talk today, and I have a question that I always like to ask. Which is related to insights, but it's also related to great conversations that allow for deep understanding, which in many cases is what insights are. If you had the opportunity to pick anyone, who in the world of insights would you love to have lunch with?

Kyle: Oh, wow. That's really fascinating. You left the hardest question for the end because there are so many interesting and fascinating people.

Within the world of insights, I think one person that I've always appreciated is kind of within insights more than marketing, but it's Mark Ritson. It's because he provokes people a bit and he intentionally does it. 

I find that very, very fascinating, the way that he pushes the status quo and every time I see something that he's posted online or read one of his articles, I don't always agree with him, but it allows me to pause and think, "Hmm, do I actually agree with that? It's a really interesting point of view." 

I'd love to sit down and talk to him a bit more about how he goes about doing that and provoking people and the background behind how he actually got there.

Thor: That's a lunch that given what you just said, I would probably love to listen into. Maybe even though I wouldn't be invited to the table. This has been such a great and insightful conversation, Kyle, so thank you so much for joining.

Kyle: Well, the pleasure is all mine. I really enjoyed it.

Thor: It's always fantastic to hear how you and how McDonald's are really doing an awesome job at democratizing and integrating insight. 

I personally really like how the hacks that you propose, which is to really allow us as insights leaders to think, "How can we provoke with insights." Not only is it a great way to challenge the status quo and to get people to pause and reflect, but it's also a great tool for a lot of us who sit on deep understanding to get the message through. I think that's super powerful advice that you've given us. 

I know that I have on a personal level learned a lot from talking to you today and I'm sure our audience has as well. Thank you so much for joining me and thanks to everyone for listening in.